technicians vs musicians in the techno world

[blistanbul]

ok obviously there are mainly (amongst good artist) two types of artist:

one who can play traditional instruments, and the other more skilled with softwares, programming etc.

who do you think in techno and in electronic music fits one of these two categories?

and which do you prefer?

i think aphex twin is rare that he fits both.

people like adam beyer, marco nastic, david the drummer more so in the programming side.

musical wise compuphonic, squarepusher, deadmu5 and vitalic.

[qUE]

Not a particularly very good question, because they both fit Techno music.

If a musician doesn't have the technical skill to record and edit down music, then a studio technician is normally on hand.

If a studio technician can't play an instrument and needs one played for whatever reason, then session players are on hand.

It's only when you get into the science of sound (psycho, dynamics, harmonics, micro timing, etc.) that musicians aren't particularly good.

And visa versa, technical peeps generally not that great at emotiveness through notation and use of orchestral layouts (part of advanced music theory).

Truth is though, neither can learn about how to produce Techno from a book or education. That part is a personal journey, probably with the aid of substances and a deep passion and sense for the genre imho :)

[rhythmtech]

people like adam beyer, david the drummer more so in the programming side.

i'd have to disagree there. listen to earlier beyer releases. they're full of immense musicality. code red anybody?

DTD is a musician thru and thru aswell. the guy was playing in bands long before making techno

[blistanbul]

i think threads like these are prime for healthy debate que.

i would like more contribution from members and artists here alike.

[rhythmtech]

i would like more contribution from members and artists here alike.

+1

be nice to be able to debate it without descending into madness

[BRADLEE]

I've been making music for some time now, and I am my own worst enemy, my own best student, and sometimes even my own teacher.....

I can't say that I have always been the greatest engineer, it takes a long time to allow your ears to become tuned to a sound which is natural and a sound which is sometimes artificial...however it must always be emotional in order to support what the beings spirit is feeling. Music is a journey....definitely a learning process as is with any form of art. And again even after so long I am still developing day by day...Just as we do as people the same comes with our art forms. Life brings us twists and turns, but it's how we hang around these corners which is important. If you feel it in your spirit, then you must follow it.

Some people really like what I do, and some people dont...but that is what art is about. Any way, shape, or form (even a wave form for that matter). I know I have been a bit off topic, but my main point is really that any artist must grow into their artform. It doesn't happen with a snap of the fingers, or the flick of a switch...it's all about the natural progression of time, timing, and persistance.

Now who are some of my favorites and for which reasons....Musically speaking I could comment, but how to know what they do unless directly by their sides...it's always questionable. Let your ears guide you to what you enjoy, if it's not your bag, then put it aside for someone else. And if you aspire to make great art of any kind, keep reaching for it. Try hard, try often, and try again over and over. All my best from the other side.

BL

[papllon]

and which do you prefer?

i think aphex twin is rare that he fits both.

Aphex is, in his words, a self-confessed obsessive programmer with absolutely no musical knowledge at all... all the conventional instruments ( strings etc ) are programmed. Druqks was mainly made with loads of synths, Max/Msp, etc... just because he's no musician does not mean the guy isn't an absolute genius ( in my book anyway )!!!!

Cheers

[blistanbul]

i knew aphex built his own gear etc, but you can't tell me selected ambient works 85-92 and richard d james albums didn't have any musicianship?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i knew aphex built his own gear

I actually heard somewhere recently that this was all a bit of a con. Not sure how true it is, but its not hard to imagine he could have done this for 'show' on stage and many of us fell for it... That whole 'mad scientist' image fits beautifully with his music eh ;)

That's not to say he's not a genius... one of the biggest influences in my life musically ever...

[MARK ANXIOUS]

but back to the debate at hand.. can electronic music ever really be musical in the true 'playing an instrument' sense of the word? it is after all, all pre-recorded music - you can correct the mistakes...

however that's not to say people who make electronic music arent musical. it's just a slightly different musicality to the traditional sense of the word...

for me, the people who make the best music consistently are the most musical.. however, to be able to deliver this, you also have to know a great deal of musical science - which for electronic music is alot to do with physics and maths - waves, synthesis, frequency relationships etc.. without this, you're just not going to be able to consistently express your musicality through electronics... unless you employ an engineer of course - but in my book that's cheating lol ;)

[rhythmtech]

unless you employ an engineer of course - but in my book that's cheating lol ;)

dont be saying that... cause in my book thats my wages

[basslinejunkie]

sorry,but i think its a bit of a daft question to be honest. in order to be an affecive musican you have to be a really good technician. weather thats manipulating a violin,a piano or computer software is irrelevant.

[clubsynthetic]

but back to the debate at hand.. can electronic music ever really be musical in the true 'playing an instrument' sense of the word? it is after all, all pre-recorded music - you can correct the mistakes...

however that's not to say people who make electronic music arent musical. it's just a slightly different musicality to the traditional sense of the word...

for me, the people who make the best music consistently are the most musical.. however, to be able to deliver this, you also have to know a great deal of musical science - which for electronic music is alot to do with physics and maths - waves, synthesis, frequency relationships etc.. without this, you're just not going to be able to consistently express your musicality through electronics... unless you employ an engineer of course - but in my book that's cheating lol ;)

I agree with this.

But I wouldn't call them an engineer - I would call them a "ghost writer". The fact that people are so arsed about getting there music out and making it polished and not making the music which is reflecting their emotions or creativity is just cheating themselves really. Empty, hollow shell.

I remember watching the Youngsters at Dogma 2002ish. One of the doods there can obviously play piano and they were also singing. It might not be everyone's bag but i thought they were talented and very, very good (and interesting)

The fact that you can take ableton and record the midi on the fly (from finger drumming a pad controller to playing a keyboard) and develop it in the true sense of the word LIVE is where i think it gets really cool. I love tweaking when it comes to synths and music making but there's nothing like being able to (or trying to) smash a rhythm out on drums or play a wicked melody on the piano - I like the fact it's humanized, slightly wonky depending on the performer and mistakes can be made - that's the beauty!

There is no line if you don't see one.

[clubsynthetic]

sorry,but i think its a bit of a daft question to be honest. in order to be an affecive musican you have to be a really good technician. weather thats manipulating a violin,a piano or computer software is irrelevant.

this as well.

[basslinejunkie]

i saw the youngsters at the f com birthday in liverpool,must of been a good 10 yrs ago. was absolutely amazing.

[blistanbul]

sorry,but i think its a bit of a daft question to be honest. in order to be an affecive musican you have to be a really good technician. weather thats manipulating a violin,a piano or computer software is irrelevant.

weather?

mate it is never a good for the rain to manipulate your violin, piano or software??

[blistanbul]

i think you can be a good musician yet be a shitte programmer, or be a good software manipulator yet a shitte musician.

it is perfectly conceivable.

i am sure there are hundreds of examples of this.

[clubsynthetic]

or both

[basslinejunkie]

i think you can be a good musician yet be a shitte programmer, or be a good software manipulator yet a shitte musician.

it is perfectly conceivable.

i am sure there are hundreds of examples of this.

it isnt conceivable atall.

to make truly great music, you have to master your chosen format / instrument.

if you are a shite programmer / software manipulator, you will make shite music. if you try and play the piano with two fingers, you will produce shite music.

simples.

[blistanbul]

it isnt conceivable atall.

to make truly great music, you have to master your chosen format / instrument.

if you are a shite programmer / software manipulator, you will make shite music. if you try and play the piano with two fingers, you will produce shite music.

simples.

just because you can play an instrument doesn't mean you make great music.

check out all the death metal band groups.